Re: Official Movie Thread

[Wonko the Sane]

Oh the memes...





And, brand new, the Special Edition trailer!

I can't wait!

[blivvy]

And, brand new, the Special Edition trailer!

I can't wait!

Not enough explosions. 4.2/9.1

This is the version you are looking for:

[Wonko the Sane]

Ooooh yeah you're right, that one is more exciting!  The best part of all this is we'll be getting like six different versions of this movie coming out by all these different directors!  Something for everyone.  

... What?  What do you mean that's not how it's going to work?  

[Wonko the Sane]

Or this version?

[Wonko the Sane]

Waitwhat?  Where did this come from?  


...and Matt Smith is listed in the cast. Double

[blivvy]

Yea I had heard Arnie was gonna be in another Termy movie. But I guess they ran out of ideas so they decided to reboot the first 2 movies, combine them together and change a bunch of stuff 

[Wonko the Sane]

I mean it was only a matter of time before they did one of these Back to the Future style versions (Get it?  Because of time travel?  ha.  haha.)  But you're right about it seeming a bit like they're out of ideas.  Anyone who has watched a sufficient amount of Star Trek can tell you that whenever a show or movie involves time travel, invariably they will copy Back to the Future I and II with varying degrees of success.  All the while, you'll have this sneaking suspicion that you've seen this before because, well, you have.  Unless you haven't seen Back to the Future in which case I suppose you haven't.  But having not seen Back to the Future, you may have this feeling that somewhere out there someone has previously seen the thing you're now seeing but the previously seen thing, in all its originality, was much better than this copy you are presently seeing.  And so the seeing will have been seen and all the things which were seen will be seen again with less enthusiasm than those which were originally seen.  And thus the fall of the Western Roman Empire and the end of civilization became so.

[Wonko the Sane]

QED

[blivvy]

I think I've seen that before. In the not too distant future... or was it past?

Time travel problems.

[Theicecreaman]

that was so trippy man 

[Wonko the Sane]

I'm starting to really love these memes and mash-ups.

[Shinja]

So I was reading this silly article on wired earlier ( http://www.wired.com/2015/01/fast-speeder-star-wars-vii/ ).

I can't help but think exercises like this really take things too far. I mean sure, it was probably fun for the guy figuring all this stuff out but geez. I'm tired of people overanalysing star wars. It gets so bad at times. Some CG guy just threw that scene together because it looked cool and here's this idiot spending hours of his time proving that the acceleration of a mythical "speeder" is unrealistic. Oh really? Things in sci-fi movies are unscientific? You don't say...

I sometimes wonder if we didn't have so many people doing pointless shit like this that maybe "midichlorians" wouldn't be a thing.


Edit: Also forgot to say, Happy rotten new year!

[Wonko the Sane]

Yeah I agree.  The acceleration thing is silly and pointless to even talk about with a sci-fi movie.  Think how fast all the ships accelerate in space and yet we don't see anybody pancaked against the back hull.  Star Trek solved this problem by making up so-called intertial dampeners.  Obviously Star Wars has similar tech, it's just not explained as much in the Star Wars universe since it's not as technology-focused as Star Trek is.  So can we all just assume something like that exists and get on with it already?

And yes, happy new whatchamacallit and whatever.

[Shinja]

Oh, you've still not seen Plinkett's famous reviews of the prequels that completely expose what a terrible mess they are yet? You still think the prequels are kinda alright? You really gotta sort that out... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI&list=PL5919C8DE6F720A2D

[Wonko the Sane]

I don't think they're so awful if you watch them in the right order. I can't remember where I first read this but if you watch episodes 2 and 3 as if they were extended flash-backs while watching the original trilogy, it all makes a lot more sense. I think you watch them after Empire, before continuing on to Jedi? Episode 1 should be left completely out of this viewing sequence and treated as an entirely separate movie that isn't even part of the main story.

I've always thought of episode 1 that way though, as its own separate prequel movie made just to show off some of the early history of the characters, and I actually enjoy the movie whenever I watch it from that perspective. I may be alone in this but I do think it's all about that perspective.

[Shinja]

I honestly think if you were to sit and watch Plinkett's reviews you'd very likely change your opinion. You'd probably even start avoiding the prequels like the plague, which you ought to be doing already! And sure, the reviews do get pretty silly at times and some find the character of Plinkett, played by Mike Stoklasa, as annoying however the points he makes against the films are so numerous and well thought out that I find it hard to deny that the films aren't steaming piles of sith. It really is quite eye opening and fun to watch him dissect them and his character actually keeps the lengthy reviews from getting too dry and boring.

After watching them I'm personally of the opinion that anyone who thinks these films are good, or even mediocre, just kinda got overwhelmed by how bad these films actually are. It's how I used to think originally. There's so much stuff that doesn't make any sense in them that it's incredibly hard to get your head around it. The list of illogical occurrences and dialogue in the films is so vast and you're hit with it so often that you just kinda find yourself going along with it. At the end of the film all you really remember is how stylised it was and how cool and colourful the visuals were. At least that's how I think my mind was operating before really taking the time to think about what was actually going on in the film.

I'd be quite interested in what your thoughts would be, Wonko, of at least one of Plinkett's reviews and the related film afterwards. Maybe you'd judge the film more harshly or you'd think Plinkett is being too scathing. Maybe you'd even find flaws in his analysis and I'm being too lenient or easily convinced.

[Wonko the Sane]

I tried watching the one you linked to but just kept skipping ahead looking for some actual review content.  Every time I skipped all I heard was this annoying guy ranting about how his son committed suicide, or how George Lucas is a terrible human being, or some other irrelevant thing.  So I gave up.  Maybe he does make some valid points somewhere in the middle of all that garbage, but I couldn't find them.  If there's a cliffnotes version without all the pointless trash talk feel free to link that instead.

I assume it's mainly Episode 1 you take issue with, because most people focus on that one, which is why I prefer to think of it as its own separate movie that isn't part of the main Trilogy's story.  I found the thing someone wrote about how much better everything gets when you exclude Episode I and re-order the movies.  It's called Machete Order:
http://www.nomachetejuggling.com/2011/11/11/the-star-wars-saga-suggested-viewing-order/

Pretty sure we've mentioned this here before but why not discuss it again.  He makes some really good points about how this order makes it easier to forgive all the issues with the prequels by making them secondary to the main story of the original Trilogy.  He even did a test case with someone who had never seen Star Wars before (that's near the end).  Then, at the end of it all, you can watch Episode 1 as its own movie if you want. Or not, since it doesn't matter at all. If you do though, it's not so bad anymore.

[Shinja]

Of course the problem with the prequels isn’t the order you watch them in but the actual movies themselves. If you think they become any better just by reordering them and incorporating them into the original film’s viewing order then that just makes me think you don’t really understand why the original star wars films are so cinematically great. If you understood the massive gulf in quality between the original movies and the prequels then you wouldn’t want to mix them at all.

I did however read through the “Machete order” article in full and while it may fix some inconsistencies with the edited original star wars films, it doesn’t fix the prequels. I also take issue with the premise of creating this new viewing order in the first place.

Unfortunately, Release Order is also an instant failure, and the reason is a single shot. If you're watching the original trilogy first, then after the Empire is destroyed and everyone is celebrating, Luke looks over at his mentors, Ben Kenobi and Yoda, and suddenly they are joined by... some random creepy looking teenager who needs a haircut. Placing Hayden Christensen in the ending of Jedi, since he's not in ANY of the other films, turns an ending that should be celebratory into one that is confusing for the viewer. The fact that Christensen looks like he's undressing someone with his eyes doesn't help. So neither order really works. What to do?

This bugs me because you could easily watch the original star wars films unedited, and it’d solve this problem completely. Why even bring the prequels into the equation? Also why exactly are edited versions of the original films at the beginning of the release order? Some of the edited versions weren’t actually released until after the prequels.

Episodes II and III aren't exactly Shakespeare, but standing next to the complete and utter trainwreck that is Episode I, they sure look like it. At least, III does anyway. Episode I is a failure on every possible level. The acting, writing, directing, and special effects are all atrocious, and the movie is just plain boring.

The author clearly gets that episode 1 is bad but doesn’t seem to realise the other two are just as terrible. They may look slightly better in comparison to 1 but that’s about it. Episode 2 is just as mind numbingly boring and has one of the most nonsensical plots ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CfBhi6qqFLA#t=276

Another whole sequence that makes no sense...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux8pCqiiBLA

Episode 3 has all the same mistakes as the 2nd, with the addition of a 7 minute duelling scene that consists of inhuman choreographed fighting and no real emotion to it. It drags on so long it gets boring and you start wondering when it’ll end. It’s just as bad as the rest of them, all filler, no real content or meaningful plot.

As I mentioned, this creates a lot of tension after the cliffhanger ending of Episode V. It also uses the original trilogy as a framing device for the prequel trilogy. Vader drops this huge bomb that he's Luke's father, then we spend two movies proving he's telling the truth

Why would we need to prove that he’s telling the truth? It was never in question to begin with and nothing in the original story makes it ambiguous. It’s not even an issue. “Search your feelings, you know it to be true.” And he does know. He even yells about it. It’s one of the most well-known cinematic scenes in history. Why would we need to “prove” it with backstory again?

In the opening of Episode II, Padme refers to Anakin as "that little boy I knew on Tatooine." The two of them look approximately the same age in Episode II, so the viewer can naturally conclude that the two of them were friends as children. This completely hides the totally weird age gap between them from Episode I, and lends a lot of believability to the subsequent romance.

Except the romance scenes are terrible on their own. Excluding episode 1 from the equation doesn’t make them any less so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGnorxUw4AA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz1L63TdhC8

Machete order also keeps the fact that Luke and Leia are siblings a surprise, it simply moves the surprise to Episode III instead of VI, when Padme announces her daughter's name. This is actually a more effective twist in this context than when Obi-Wan just tells Luke in Return of the Jedi.

WRONG. Obi-Wan doesn’t “just tell” Luke that his sister is Leia, watch the scene again. Luke figures it out for himself. It was Obi-Wan’s intention to keep his sister’s identity anonymous until Luke was ready. Clearly he was though.

I also can’t believe someone would think a highly sterile scene that’s 90% CGI makes for a better reveal of Leia’s true character than two people having an actual deep conversation within the context of the original movies. One has substance with real feelings and the other doesn’t.

Remember that we never saw Anakin as a little kid, he's about the same age the first time we see him as Luke was in Episode VI. Hayden Christensen's incessant whining in Episode II is actually less annoying now, because it's helping to link the character to Luke, who was just as whiny in Episode IV. In other words, because we skipped Episode I, the parallels between Luke and Anakin are much stronger.

While there are parallels between Vader and Luke, the “whining” isn’t one of them. Luke whines because he’s impatient to learn and then later because he’s struggling with his training, then after that because he wants to save his friends. There’s a reason behind his whining, it’s shown throughout the story in his actions. The only reason Anikin whines is because he thinks obi-wan is slighting him in some way, and the slights aren’t even that substantial. Yet they build his character on top of this and it remains completely unconvincing throughout the movies.

Shortly after, Luke goes apeshit and beats the hell out of Vader, clearly succumbing to his anger. He overpowers Vader with rage and cuts his arm off, just like Anakin did to Windu in Episode III.

Comparing these two fights is laughable. One is cinematic history filled with genuinely shown emotion, the other is highly unemotional and choreographed rubbish.

Here’s an excellent point made by Plinkett and an example of the problems with such highly choreographed fight scenes. This is definitely one of the most elegant points made in his reviews, so if you’ve been skipping them up until now just because he has an “annoying voice”, maybe you should reconsider for this specific point.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORWPCCzSgu0&feature=player_detailpage&list=PL5919C8DE6F720A2D#t=358

Having the very real threat of Luke following in his father's path made clear by watching II and III before VI heightens the tension of this scene, and it actually makes Return of the Jedi better. Yes, watching Revenge of the Sith makes Return of the Jedi a better, more effective film. Considering it's the weakest of the original trilogy films, this improvement is welcome.

I mean sure, I agree with him on this. It’s kind of like comparing twilight and the godfather side by side. Twilight is so bad that it makes you appreciate the godfather more because you didn’t realise films could get so bad.


And then we have the author of this new viewing order explain some of its major flaws and drawbacks...

Spoiler:

I really don’t see why you’d bother. The original trilogy is all you need. I just can't wrap my head around the mentality of it. Why would you want to use the original trilogy as a "framing device" (as the author puts it), for two lesser movies? You already have one of the best (if not THE best) and most well known trilogy in film history. I don't see why anyone would want to waste that by trying to shoehorn two substandard movies into the middle of it.


PS: Apologies for the length of this, I may have got somewhat carried away

[Theicecreaman]

[Wonko the Sane]

@Shinja:  I'm still not convinced that the prequels are worthless.  You keep trying to say how unemotional, choreographed, CG, etc, they are compared to the original trilogy, and while I agree with most of the things you're saying I just don't think they're as big a problem as you're saying they are.

I mean, the choreographed and unemotional whatnot is clearly an integrated part of the story.  In the prequels, we're seeing the Jedi Order at its peak where its members train from childhood to become some kind of hybrid between Vulcans and Bruce Lee.  The choreography is entirely intentional and an integral part of this story.  And the CG?  So what.  Every movie is entirely CG these days.  Get over it, that's just nitpicking in my mind.

That said, the acting certainly leaves a bit to be desired and yeah it's got plenty of other issues.  Would I like Episode I if Qui-Gon wasn't in it?  Probably not.  But he is and I find it worth watching just to get a glimpse of a traditional non-traditional member of the Jedi Order and what things were like before everything went to hell.  I suppose I just approach these movies the way I try to approach all movies:  I'm watching it to be entertained so I'm going to lower my expectations to the point that the movie achieves that goal.

In any case, it's a super easy problem to solve.  If you don't like 'em, don't watch 'em.  If you want the story and can forgive the inadequacies, go right ahead.  It's not like anyone is being strapped to a chair with toothpicks holding their eyes open while the prequels play on loop.  Now that I've said that though, the CIA will probably start using this as a form of torture to extract information from people.

[Wonko the Sane]

People are saying this is going to be good, but I can't help but wonder why they have to keep re-making all these movies with younger and younger actors. Why?

[blivvy]

Remakes are all the rage these days. Aren't they gonna reboot Spiderman yet again also? It seems original ideas are few and far between. If it's not a remake then it's a sequel to a movie that came out like over 10 or 20 years ago (not complaining about new Ghostbusters or Beetlejuice movies though).

[Theicecreaman]

Waaaaaaait, what?  The latest Fantastic Four is only like a decade old...Jessica Alba still looks exactly the same, as does the fireball guy who became Captain America. 

Geez.

[blivvy]

So have u guys seen Age of Ultron? It was pretty good imo. I think I liked the first Avengers movie more though.

Spoiler:

Oh and may the fourth be with you!

[Wonko the Sane]

I haven't seen it yet... Been watching Agents of Shield though on Netflix which lays out some story leading up to it. I don't get a chance to go to the theaters much anymore so I'll probably have to wait until it's out on disc to see it

[Sponsored content]