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Where to buy a new computer?

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Post by Acrobat Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:13 pm

Basically my computer is not compiling well anymore so the thought of a new one has been crossing my mind but who would I buy it from?

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Post by Grimlore Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:47 pm

Definitely not from a Garage Sale.
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Post by Theicecreaman Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:59 pm

Just go to any electronics store and see what they have?

Or, if you're feeling particularly lazy, see what's what on the internet? I'd recommend actually going to a store first and seeing what you like and don't like.
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Post by Wonko the Sane Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:11 pm

The only good pre-assembled computers left these days are built by Apple. All the other manufacturers like Dell and HP and so on have cut so many corners trying to drive prices down as far as they can go that their products are horrible pieces of crap that become money pits or outright need replacing after a year or so. Total waste of money. And don't even get me started on netbooks. Since Apple doesn't compete in the low-end low-price market, their computers are actually good quality still.

Otherwise, the only way you're getting a good computer that will last you 6-8 years (and I don't mean 1 year of liking the computer and 7 years of hating its guts and wanting to buy a new one... I'm looking at you Ice!) is to order the parts yourself so you can get quality components and build it yourself.

The PC I use for gaming is going on 5 years old, hasn't had a single upgrade yet but probably could use a new video card within the next 2 years, and still kicks ass. Quad core, dual graphics cards, oodles of ram... it's better than 90 percent of the "new" crap you can buy from places like Dell or HP and it's five years old. That's what happens when you put quality parts into a computer.

Bottom line: Buy a Mac or build it yourself. Otherwise you'll be wasting your money in the long run. Parts for this computer cost me about a thousand bucks. A Mac will run you about the same amount.

Or you could buy a $400 piece of crap so I can say "told you so" in 6 months when it stops compiling your stuff again.



Edit: I almost forgot about this place out of California I've ordered from before: http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/
They're geared towards gaming computers, but you can easily build any type of computer. They don't sell any prefabracated stuff. You choose the individual components and brands that go into the computer then they build it for you and ship it off. So it's practically the same as building it yourself except you don't have to build it, only pick the brands that go into it. You do need to know what you're doing though or else you can combine parts that don't work together and get a frankenstein computer that explodes when you push the power button. If you go this route, stick with ASUS for the motherboard. Beyond that, I prefer AMD hardware but anything else they offer will be high quality stuff so you can't really go wrong. They don't even offer to put in the cheap quality components since they're geared towards gaming computers. Choose one of the specials on their main page that's around the price you're looking to pay and then customize it to your liking. Oh, and lastly, always choose the option for them to install the max amount of case fans your case supports. Airflow is extremely important. But even ordering from them I always seem to end up with a computer that costs about a thousand dollars. I think that's probably the threshold for a good computer or something.
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Post by Theicecreaman Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:24 pm

Hey, man, I've had my laptop for a good few years, and it runs everything (except games like jk2 or anything that requires a large amount of processing power) just fine.

No, but really, I've been looking at Macs quite a bit lately, and I just don't think I can live without Windows OS's.
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Post by Trey Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:07 am

Newegg is good for parts as well, if you are assembling it yourself.

I always seem to end up with a computer that costs about a thousand dollars.

Give or take a few hundred dollars, I've found that has been the price for a reasonable computer as well.

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Post by Wonko the Sane Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:38 am

Theicecreaman wrote:Hey, man, I've had my laptop for a good few years, and it runs everything (except games like jk2 or anything that requires a large amount of processing power) just fine.

Well, Ice, considering he is replacing his old computer because it's not up to the cpu intensive task of compiling, I think you only just proved my point there Razz

Don't want to get into another Mac vs PC debate here, but the only real reason to need Windows over a Mac these days is for gaming. There's a lot more games out for the Mac OS since Steam started converting their library, but Windows still takes the crown regardless. With how often new graphics technology comes out also, you need to be able to buy a new video card and pop it into your machine every few years to keep pace. You simply can't do that on Macs unless you spend thousands for a Mac Pro, which nobody but the people designing those games needs. Games aside, the Mac OS kind of really does just about everything else better (quicker, easier & with less fuss, and more securely), and you can reference all the other topics where we've debated that issue, or revive one of them if you'd like to debate further Razz If you want all the benefits of the Mac OS without having to buy a Mac, just install Ubuntu! They've pretty much got it covered, especially in the most recent version.


But anyway, like Trey said, newegg is probably the best place to go online to buy computer parts. I doubt there's any brick and mortar stores left anymore that carry a decent selection of pc parts.
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Post by Acrobat Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:24 pm

I have a mac laptop. I like it for basic stuff, and I think they make the best lap tops.

But I want to be able to map without using bootcamp. There is lots of small side software I like to use too that would never run on mac.

I kind want that Core i7 3930X, but it's kind of a waste if it's not over clocked since that is what that chip is meant for.

My map is getting really hard to compile, and actually is failing to compile 50% of time or more. I need series processing power.

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Post by Wonko the Sane Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:40 am

I've always thought AMD processors run better under Windows. I'd go for one of the newer Phenom II's. If your compiling software is multi-threaded, then you can get up to six cores with those babies, although if it isn't multi-threaded then you're not going to get much of a benefit, so stick with a quad core version and save some cash. Quad core is generally more than enough for all your daily multitasking needs.

I rarely tax my quad core Phenom, even running multiple instances of jk2 when testing additions to the mod. More often than not, I run into limitations in how many programs Windows itself can keep track of, or how much rendering my graphics cards can handle before I hit the ceiling on my cpu. AMD makes solid hardware. And it's cheaper than Intel's variants.
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Post by Acrobat Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:54 pm

This is my current computer


GEForce 9600 GT 512 MB graphics processor
Intel QX9650 3 gigahtz, 12 MB cache, 4 core processor
(Two of these) Patriot 1 GB DDR3 1333 MHZ LL PC3-10666 AW110 AW110 XMP intel memory
32 bit windows Vista
Nvidia nforce 7901 ultra sli motherboard




I was looking at cyberpowerpc website, and the best I could get is basically this (the 3960 intel chip has 15 cache memory but is overpriced and barely any improvement in performance so most say to go with 3930)


Windows 64 bit
CPU:Intel® Core™ i7-3930K 3.20 GHz 12MB Intel Smart Cache LGA2011 (All Venom OC Certified)
:64GB (8GBx8) DDR3/1600MHz Quad Channel Memory [+586] (Corsair or Major Brand)
MOTHERBOARD:(4-Way SLI Support) Asus Rampage IV Extreme Intel X79 Chipset Quad Channel DDR3 ATX w/ ROG Connect, UEFI BIOS, BT GO, OC Key, Subzero Sense & 7.1 HD Audio, Intel GbLAN, USB3.0, SATA-III RAID, 5 Gen3 PCIe X16 & 1 PCIe X1 [+250]
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570 1.2GB 16X PCIe Video Card (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)
HDD:2TB (2TBx1) SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 64MB Cache 7200RPM HDD (Single Drive)






So I look at the comparison, and even though my computer is 4 years old, I'm not seeing that much improvement. Certainly some, but I am wondering if I would get the benefit I would want out of a new computer.

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Post by Wonko the Sane Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:59 pm

I didn't realize your current computer was already that up to date. A 3ghz quad core cpu is plenty of horsepower even now. Here's the thing, though, about the new i7 3.2ghz. You might think it's just .2ghz faster, but that's not actually an accurate measuring mark anymore. If you don't know much about processor architecture, that i7 you were looking at is a 32nanometer cpu. The one you have now is a 45nm cpu. This means the newer one has smaller insides, which means shorter distances for data to travel which means less delay in getting those bits where they're going. This results in a more efficient, faster processor. So 3ghz at 32nm is faster than 3ghz at 45nm. It's not apples to apples anymore so you really can't use the ghz to compare speed anymore. You'd need to find an actual speed benchmark comparing one core to one core for those two cpu's.

That said, 45nm is still very current in today's cpu market. The processor I have is even a generation older than that, and it still kicks ass. I don't think you'll see the kind of performance increase you're looking for out of that, it'd be more like a minor speed bump.

The only thing that's probably holding it back right now is your memory. Two gigs of system RAM is simply not enough these days. I'd say buy Windows 7 64bit (home premium should suffice) and upgrade your memory in that machine. At least double it to 4gb, or go more if your motherboard supports more. I'd say 8gb is a nice number for the kind of work you want to do, so hopefully your mobo supports at least that. Any more than that would probably go to waste sitting idle though, honestly. It's hard for a desktop to use more than 8gb right now, it's more servers managing entire offices of computers that require more than that. You're probably going to see a decent performance boost even from doubling your system memory though. That can make a huge difference in the kind of work your machine is doing when compiling, and Vista itself is already using up most of your 2gb undoubtedly.

Don't upgrade the memory without upgrading your OS though, as you won't get the full 4gb out of it. Probably closer to 3gb out of a 32bit OS once it has mapped all the other memory in your system first.

After that, you can always upgrade to a new video card if it's not playing the latest and greatest games anymore and pop in a larger HDD. Your computer can probably take one major overhaul like that before you need to replace the motherboard to get whatever technologies come out next to replace PCI Express and SLI. A good, well built desktop can always survive at least one major overhaul before it needs a new backbone.
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Post by blivvy Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:57 pm

Yep listen to the wonko man, he know's a thing or 2 bout comp & technology in general :p

You could upgrade ur os to Win 7. It's basically the same layout as Vista but without all the issues vista had Rolling Eyes

Speaking of pc's and stuff, my sis was telling me she got a Macbook Air and loves it. What's ur verdict wonks? (or should I even ask lol)
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Post by Wonko the Sane Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:11 pm

Macs are generally great for anything that doesn't involve games. Especially for students, all of Apple's software like Pages and Keynote, their versions of Word and Powerpoint, are so far beyond Microsoft's versions that students can great some really awesome powerpoint presentations. Stuff that's better than anything you can do in MS Powerpoint. And Pages makes it so much easier to do reports and posters and such. Apple just spent the time to create versions of those programs for normal people and students instead of business professionals.

As far as ease of use, there's no comparison really. Again, it's all about the software. The Mac OS is designed to be as simple as possible. Get things done in as few clicks as possible.

In terms of hardware, Apple doesn't do low-end computers. They put the highest quality hardware in all their stuff and build high quality machines that actually take into account a person using it and beating it up over the course of a college degree and three or four years afterwards. The newest macbooks are all aluminum and they even have this new stuff called liquid metal that is self-healing that they should start using soon instead of aluminum. They have an exclusive license for that new metal or something, so I don't think anyone else can use it in computer electronics.

Like I said before, the downfalls of the Macs would be gaming for one. There's just not as many games available, but that shouldn't be such a big issue for a student. (I'm just assuming she's a student) The other big downfall would be that geeks don't get to mess around with it and tweak settings and such as much as you can on Windows. But the upside of that is you can't break anything and have to reformat and reinstall all the time. So it's sort of a trade-off in that area. Also, you can't upgrade Macs like you can a normal PC desktop. Even a PC laptop is more upgradeable than a Mac laptop, since you can actually take apart a PC laptop but the Macs are all unibody now, not designed to be taken apart. The tradeoff there is the Macbooks are teeny tiny compared to PC laptops 'cause they don't need all the extra parts that allow you to disassemble it. But you can't easily upgrade the hard drive or anything else really, unless you're really technical. But again, not such an issue for a student.

So there are some tradeoffs that you make when you buy a Mac, but the idea is that the thing will last and it will always work well without you ever having to fuss with it. I also know that Macs generally keep their market value a lot longer than PCs do, so if she ever decides to sell it and buy a new one she'd actually get a decent chunk of her money back even a few years down the road. That's due to the parts inside all being the latest and greatest when you buy it. No previous generation stuff, so it lasts longer and the value doesn't diminish so quickly. Make sure she knows that... don't just chuck the thing when she's done with it, sell it or give it to a family member or at the very least send it back to apple for recycling. They even pay you when you do that most times, unless the machine is like 10 years old.
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Post by Acrobat Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:32 am

Are there any big jumps in processing power coming in the next 1 or 2 years you think?


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Post by Wonko the Sane Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:03 pm

In terms of speed, no. The speed of processors has pretty much reached the limits of what copper wire can handle. That's why everything stopped at around 3ghz on the intel side and 2ghz on the AMD side in the last five years or so. They've simply made the things as fast as copper allows them to be. Instead, they're focusing on efficiency and making things smaller to reduce latency and heat and all that. That's when the big nanometer war began and everyone has been all about that for the past few years. Then things got as small as they could make them so now they're adding as many cores as possible.

But that only helps if you have applications that can handle multiple cores. Most applications even now only use a single core or, at most, two. Most new games are only written for at most dual core cpu's. Anything more than a quad core cpu in a desktop computer right now is a complete waste of money because nothing takes advantage of all those cores. Unless it's a server, in which case everything's different. Servers have had 8-16 cores across multiple cpu's for over a decade now. Totally not necessary in a desktop yet though. Probably won't be useful for another 5 years at least.

So there really won't be any major jumps in the next couple years unless they can nail down all the optical stuff they've been working on and finally get past the limits on copper. But I don't think they're near enough yet. They've been talking about it for years and nobody's really seen anything concrete yet. It's probably a cost thing between copper and the optic fiber, I don't know.
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Post by Acrobat Tue May 21, 2013 3:59 pm

bump, i still need to look into a new one

I was rereading this thread...the processor is still the Core i7 3930X. Ya they have a 3960 just like the year 2011 and ya they now have a 3970, which is just an overclocked 3970.

But those latter two chips are still overpriced and barely different from the 3930.

So basically we're still in the year 2011 as far as high end chips go. Nothing has changed in 1.5 years since I started this thread.

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Post by Theicecreaman Tue May 21, 2013 5:30 pm

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/

I would recommend looking here.
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Post by Trey Wed May 22, 2013 10:56 pm


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Post by Wonko the Sane Sat May 25, 2013 12:48 pm

Actually we're not still in 2011 for chips. For Intel, the latest processors are the Ivy Bridge chips. The 39xx chips you're talking about are the old Sandy Bridge chips. Sandy Bridge uses a 32nm procress, Ivy Bridge is a newer 22nm process.

Like I said in my post on the last page, the speeds don't matter anymore. They've reached the limits of how fast copper can push data, so you'll see the latest cpu chips are listed with the same clock speeds they've had for the past five years. It's all about making everything smaller and more efficient now. If you can't push data any faster through the copper, shorten the length of the copper instead. The speed and efficiency boosts you get from going from a 32nm process to a 22nm process make a huge difference.

You'll want to read up on that kind of thing before you go buying a two year old processor.
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