Windows 8

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Windows 8

Post by Theicecreaman on Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:20 pm

^^

What do you guys think of it? Is anyone planning on switching?

I want to wait to see how it is. The only thing worth having is the faster start-up times. The "tiles" thing looks silly and pointless.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Wonko the Sane on Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:13 pm

Hell to the no.


Everything I've heard says it's horrible on regular PCs (desktops/laptops). They force you to use the tablet elements it was designed for, except those elements don't work well at all on normal computers. Basically, it's Vista all over again. Just like when everyone said don't upgrade to Vista, stay with XP until the next version... they're saying the same thing about this one.

Unless you're buying a Surface Tablet, this new Windows is a big no-no for normal computers. They'll probably iron out all the issues in the next version, but if you have Windows 7 I'd suggest you DO NOT upgrade to 8.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Theicecreaman on Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:33 pm

I Agree

Now that that is settled, what's the dealio with those surface tablets? Are they actually any good? No way in hell would I ever need to use one, but are they actually legit? The reviews make 'em seem solid.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Wonko the Sane on Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:51 pm

I think they only just came out, so the tech peoples I listen to when new stuff like this comes out haven't gotten them yet. I'll probably watch one of the podcasts this weekend to see what they have to say about it.

So far I've been hearing that, in typical Microsoft style, these things are way overcomplicated to buy. Far too many options with nobody really knowing the differences between the options. There's also two different types of tablets, one that runs only a slimmed down tablet version of Win8 (can't run windows programs and such) and another that can run the full version. They don't clearly tell anybody the differences between these apparently. So everybody except the real tech geeks are totally confused right now about this stuff.

In terms of the tablet itself as a thing... I haven't heard much other than "we'll wait and see" kind of stuff. I think most people are really hoping it turns out to be at least half decent so there's some competition in the tablet space finally. The problem is that Microsoft didn't let anybody actually touch their demo devices at the unveiling from what I've heard. That probably means it's buggy as all hell and they didn't want to ruin the hype.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Theicecreaman on Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:51 pm

So one thing I hope doesn't happen in Windows 8 is that the "apps" do not become too resource-intensive when the computer is forced to do a lot of processing, as with using the internet for streaming, or with gaming (or anything of that sort). The main problem I hear about Macs is that their OS's are really resource intensify, as with programs like iTunes as we all know. But that is why some OS's only work on specific Mac models (the newer ones), but with Windows, if the computer itself is shit shit, shitty shit shit, the OS is gonna suck big time. Of course, there may be no immediate problems. But what happens in five years time when having 4 gigs of RAM is equivalent to having 1 gig right now? What happens when we need more processing power, but it is done so inefficiently by the OS that lower-end computers become obsolete quicker and companies try to account for that with the software?

I mean, I remember a couple years ago my folks had to borrow my laptop because they couldn't run TurboTax of that particular year on the home computer. All I'm saying is that if the entire OS runs on "tablet-style apps" on specs dependent on the manufacturer's hardware (which are almost always cheap-as-shit), it's gonna suck because they can't account for how well it works you know? I mean, correct me if my logic is wrong, but I feel like this is the problem with Windows pretty much all the time.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Wonko the Sane on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:21 pm

It is the biggest problem with PC computers right now, you're right. People don't realize that they can't spend $400 on a computer and expect it to do anything but hold the door open. But since people want cheap computers, manufacturers are making cheap computers. Windows gets such a bad reputation and I feel like half of it is deserved (crappy programming) but half of it is just because it will run on any piece of crap you buy.

Funny thing, reading what you just wrote there, I almost feel like I just stepped into a time machine and traveled back in time 2-3 years.

4gigs of ram is the new 1gig already. Any new computer today comes with 4gigs stock. The problem is everyone wants cheap stuff, so manufacturers are still making and selling 3 year old computers to keep them cheap. That's the problem you ran into when buying your new laptop. But a new computer with new hardware all current and up to date... 4gigs of ram is standard.

The problem with Macs used to be what you noted, but a long time ago. For a while (with Snow Leopard, now 2 versions old) everything was actually really great with the Mac OS. The great thing back then was it didn't matter how old your computer was, it still ran pretty much everything perfectly fine. It was just a fantastic desktop OS.

The problem with Macs now is with Lion and the new Mountain Lion they're slimming down the OS, trimming the fat so to speak, to make it more iOS-like. This is the exact opposite of what Microsoft is doing by starting with a tablet-designed OS and then adding in the desktop stuff. Personally, I think Apple's approach is better in the long run, but in the immediate, both options suck horribly for desktop products. Neither one results in a good desktop OS.

So basically, both Apple and Microsoft are failing at the desktop OS game. In terms of strictly tablets though, I wonder if Microsoft's new tablet OS will be good enough to compete. I really hope it is.

On the other hand, Google's Chrome OS is an interesting concept. I kind of like that Google has a desktop OS and they're keeping it separate from their Android mobile OS, but they're both designed around simplicity and ease of use. Chrome OS is based on the idea that most of what normal people do on a computer these days is web-based. If you think about it, with things like Dropbox and Google Docs... almost everything you do daily can be done on the web. So that's a neat idea but I've yet to read much about it. I'm sure we'll be hearing more soon as super cheap Chrome OS laptops gain popularity. That's one super cheap computer I might actually recommend to certain people.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Theicecreaman on Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:51 pm

Man, it feels like only a few years ago when if you had one gig of RAM. you were either a hard-core gamer or you were some sort of legit computer enthusiast/engineer/developer. It's insane how quickly things change. I used to think the 128 mb of RAM on my parents' second computer was what's up when I was younger.

Yo so, do you ever feel like the excitement of using a computer has decreased in some respect with the increase in desktops, laptops, tablets, phones, etc.? I remember just turning the damn thing on (and waiting for 15 minutes for it to do so) was the most engaging shit back in the day. But now, everything is done through the computer that it has just become another thing that exists in one's living space, as much as, say, a chair.

Even the kids nowadays as surprised by things you wouldn't expect them to be surprised by. I was in a line somewhere a few months ago, and I remember seeing some 2-year-old kid asking his father how his cell phone was a phone, because it was not shaped like one. I mean, you'd expect them (kids) to be used to seeing shit like that, but we still aren't there yet.

The schema for a phone is still this:



But I figure in a couple of years, children may consider this to be their mental representation of a phone:

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Wonko the Sane on Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:10 am

Theicecreaman wrote:Yo so, do you ever feel like the excitement of using a computer has decreased in some respect with the increase in desktops, laptops, tablets, phones, etc.? I remember just turning the damn thing on (and waiting for 15 minutes for it to do so) was the most engaging shit back in the day. But now, everything is done through the computer that it has just become another thing that exists in one's living space, as much as, say, a chair.

Yes. When it was new tech it was cool and amazing and the possibilities were exciting. Now, all this technology... well it's time for an apocalypse. Reset the clock as it were.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Theicecreaman on Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:56 pm

So I think Windows 8 is free for students (at least for me). How long should I wait to see if it's worth actually getting? Some of the things look nice, but not the tablet elements. I also am not sure how I feel about everything being done through "apps." I always used chrome for emails, calender stuff, etc. Now they are really pushing for apps as being the solution for what the browser has traditionally done. And this works phenomenally for my iPhone, but I feel like it's new for Windows. And I hear their app store is very limited right now.

I think I have said this before, but everyone calls programs/applications/software/etc APPS now. Nobody even understands the former. I feel old, even though I'm as young as can be. Apps, apps, apps. Whatever happened to this type of thing:


edit:

Oh, btw, how much data would I lose if I were to switch? Like, all my documents, pictures, music, etc. all transfer? I feel like the risk is not worth it.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Wonko the Sane on Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:20 pm

The risk is definitely not worth it, since Windows 8 is total crap for a desktop and not even worth it for a new computer. For serial, wait for the next version once they figure this stuff out. It's like Vista all over again. Vista was crap until they fixed all its problems and released 7. They're starting to fall into an every-other-version-sucks routine.

I completely forgot to listen to that podcast this weekend, what with Frankestorm and all, but I will this week probably and I'll let you know what I hear about it afterwards. Until then, I've started to hear little trickles of info about it and, so far, it looks like Windows 8 sucks, but the slimmed down tablet Windows RT version I'm actually hearing some good things about. People are surprised at how good it is. So that's cool.

To be honest, that's kind of what I expected though. Microsoft designed the tablet Windows RT, then upscaled it into Win8. So they made an OS designed for tablets then added in the desktop stuff after... of course Win8 will suck doing that. You need to design two separate OSes, one for tablets and one for desktops. They'll fix that for the next version I'm sure.

So yeah, I'll let you know what else I hear once I listen to the techies giving their reviews, but right now it looks like Win8 is totally not worth it for desktops. Everyone's saying do not upgrade do not upgrade, stick with Win7.

You should trust me on this one Razz I know it's new and cool and fancy, but it's just not worth it, I don't care if it's free. I won't be getting it that's for sure.


Oh, and you can blame Apple for the whole "apps" terminology. They've always been called apps on Mac, and once the iDevices became popular the term gained some more widespread usage. I've even slipped myself and called Windows programs apps a few times by mistake.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Theicecreaman on Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:41 pm

Hmm...alright then. I'll see if anyone I know bothers to upgrade (downgrade).

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Wonko the Sane on Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:23 am

Microsoft's putting up a lot of pomp and circumstance around this new Win8, so I'm sure a lot of people will upgrade, fooled into thinking it's going to be amazing. Most people end up with a serious case of denial wrapped around buyers remorse in situations like this. ie: "I hate that it does this and that part is stupid but it does these other things okay and I already bought it/spent the time to upgrade so I'm not going to downgrade even though 7 was better but I can't let on that I made a bad decision so I'll pretend like it's still okay."

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Wonko the Sane on Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:59 pm

Listened to a couple podcasts while I worked today and I was hearing a bit more about Win8. Thing is, everyone's so focused on the Surface tablet thing that not many people are talking about Win8 in general, other than the fact that it has no start menu and you're forced to use the tablet tiles and such even if you aren't on a tablet I think? I just don't think I'd like having to navigate to a whole separate user interface screen every time I want to open a program (application?!). Seems so not quick and easy when you're trying to get stuff done. It does seem to fit more on a tablet where it's more entertainment based maybe?

Really it all seems very confusing so I don't know how much of this is true or not. From what I keep hearing, the surface tablet isn't half bad so that should help bring some more competition to the market, so that's good.

Edit: I'm hearing things about new mice specifically designed for Win8 desktops... I have no idea what's up with that but I like my mouse and don't want to have to buy a whole new mouse.

Edit edit: The final verdict from a "Before You Buy" podcast I just watched on Win8 and the surface tablet was you're going to want a touch screen for Win8. Apparently it's kind of pointless without a touch screen.

Edit edit edit: Okay I'm done Razz Spent today catching up on some tech podcasts while I worked but they're all over now, so that's all the Win8 stuff I know about right now. Oh, the advantages of working from home Cool Now to put some Netflix on and make some dinner.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by masterchief on Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:47 am

I hate this fucking slider onthe main screen. Couldn't they just made a hoover button that moves the damn thing when you go with your mouse to the right or left???? AAERGJJJGJH frustrations. i hate it.


And I noticed that explorer is stuck on the main screen?? Are we able to remove it?

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Wonko the Sane on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:47 am

rofl

Sorry, don't mean to laugh at your misfortune, Chief. But yeah that's exactly the kind of nonsense I keep hearing about Win8 on desktops. It appears that it just wasn't made for a traditional mouse and keyboard setup and a lot of its functions don't translate over well without a touchscreen.

Most likely, as was with Vista, you're going to be stuck with those quirks until the next version of Windows comes out. They might allow you to move explorer off the main screen in one of the service packs, but those usually take months/years to come out so you're probably screwed for a good long while with that. Shrug

Oh, or you could get one of those special Win8 only touchy mice guys that are starting to come out that let you swipe and touch and stuff. But they're all around $100, so definitely not cheap.

Out of curiosity, what was it that made you upgrade to Win8? Just wanted the new shinies? Or is there anything that's actually an improvement over Win7?

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Theicecreaman on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:14 pm

I was just looking at some YouTube vids, and wow...it looks impossible. I would upgrade if it were Windows 7 with faster boot times and shit like that ('cause it's free for me).

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Re: Windows 8

Post by masterchief on Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:46 pm

Wonko the Sane wrote: rofl

Sorry, don't mean to laugh at your misfortune, Chief. But yeah that's exactly the kind of nonsense I keep hearing about Win8 on desktops. It appears that it just wasn't made for a traditional mouse and keyboard setup and a lot of its functions don't translate over well without a touchscreen.

Most likely, as was with Vista, you're going to be stuck with those quirks until the next version of Windows comes out. They might allow you to move explorer off the main screen in one of the service packs, but those usually take months/years to come out so you're probably screwed for a good long while with that. Shrug

Oh, or you could get one of those special Win8 only touchy mice guys that are starting to come out that let you swipe and touch and stuff. But they're all around $100, so definitely not cheap.

Out of curiosity, what was it that made you upgrade to Win8? Just wanted the new shinies? Or is there anything that's actually an improvement over Win7?

Naa, I just tested it to look if it was any good. Quickly removed it actually. Since some of my software, cough visual studio 2011 cough microsoft program cough. doesn't seem to be compatible. Wile the gameEngine I work with on academy is on this IDE.
So I couldn't compile.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Shinja on Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:55 pm

Theicecreaman wrote:So I think Windows 8 is free for students (at least for me). How long should I wait to see if it's worth actually getting?

If it's free for you then you should at least consider getting the serial code, just in case the OS actually becomes useful in the future. Which is doubtful but it's better to be safe than sorry giving your money to Microsoft. Razz

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Wonko the Sane on Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:34 pm

Yeah I'd agree with that. Get the code, burn the software to disk, and stick in a drawer somewhere just in case.

Even if you never use it, maybe someone in your family will be buying a new laptop from cyberpower in the next couple years, they could order it without an OS and you could give them yours. Save them a few hundred bucks.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Wonko the Sane on Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:51 pm

rofl


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Re: Windows 8

Post by Theicecreaman on Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:36 pm

Sooooooo not upgrading.

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Re: Windows 8

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